Government detecting outernet devices

Ken,
The open Outernet 3.0 will also have detectable carriers emanating from it. Eg. The microprocessor clock and the LO used to do detection of the L-Band signal.

I suppose this will give me a chance to practice some of my EMC skills. It will be good to know the levels of the various spurs and carriers the LNB and boards create.

–Konrad, WA4OSH

Ken,
Wonder if it’s possible to “war-drive” and look for satellite dish owners with on a tight budget. I wonder what it would take.

X-Band antenna to look for LO
LO
Downconverter to L-Band
– or –
an appropriate LNB

RTL-SDR
GPS
Simple app that logs signal strength against locations and
displays the results on Google maps?

–Konrad, WA4OSH

Interesting you ask - - I have an android app called WiFi Analytics Tool that I downloaded from Google Play. It was developed by Amped Wireless.

When running in the middle of my street on my Smartphone approximately 1000 feet from my WiFi hotspots, I can see them all (although the Wifis are not strong enough to connect). I can also see everyone else in the neighborhood. It doesn’t plot a location to a map, but as you walk closer to an emanating Wifi, the signal increases accordingly providing an adequate “bulls eye”.

There are others out there, although I have not tried them. This is scary stuff. Ken

Yes … Look me up on Amazon. I co-authored the Wi-Fi handbook. Ohrtman and Roeder.

–Konrad, WA4OSH

this is a pretty cool wardrive map, they gather data since 2002 if I’m right. looks for the statistics as well, a good benchmark for IoT and “industrial revolution 4.0” trends :slight_smile:

personally made my first wardrive with a PC, pci wifi card, UPS + 45Ah 12V lead acid battery + CRT monitor :smiley:
somewhere back in 2003 maybe

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@zoltan @Tysonpower right around the turn of the century, I used at tool called NetStumbler

When I worked at T-Mobile, deploying Wi-Fi networks in airports, airline clubs, hotels, hot zones (entire cities covered with Wi-Fi), and Wi-Fi aboard high-speed trains, we used a tool called Ekahau

It would be interesting to scout around and map what can be seen in the Ku-LO area and to be able to map it on Google Maps.

–Konrad, WA4OSH

Did you work for T-mobile in the US? They are cool over there, here in Germany Telekom is crap in many ways despite the signal strenght.

@zoltan I also used wigle for wardriving,but with my phone :smile:

Such a map for Ku would be interesting, shouldn’t be to complicated to setup i think.
GPS Receivers are sooo cheap as well as SBC like the RaspberryPi. Then add a RTL-SDR and a LNb and it should work. Google Maps also has some nice APIs these days.

regards,
Manuel

Yes, I worked for T-Mobile here in Bellevue, WA. I think the difference is that D1-T-Mobile (Telekom) was the incumbent telephone company. They never had to compete because they had become very used to being a monopoly and thus complacent. T-Mobile here in the US was the number three or four cell provider and has always had to compete against three competitors that had the telephone monopoly - AT&T, Verizon and Sprint.

Yes, there are a number of iPhone and Android apps for wardriving.

I agree. I need to do an experiment to see what it takes to “hear” the LO from the Maverick MK1-PLL. I think the next step, if the LO can be detected without elaborate test equipement, is to see about shielding the LNB and/or ferrites on the feed coax, etc.
Air conditioner tape in the right places?

Actually building a war-driving Ku finder … we’ll leave that up to the hostile govts. I’m not going to help them find DreamCatchers. I want to know if it’s possible and prevent that.

–Konrad, WA4OSH

Jeah that is definitely one of the reasons for that. There is competition now, but Telekom is still thinking they are untouchable. I find that really Sad because they have a massive infrastructure :frowning:

share your results on the KA-LO :slight_smile:

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I don’t recall whether or not the new Dreamcatcher has a wired capability to connect to a router and the ability to turn off the Wifi. Perhaps @Syed could comment on that.

If designed like the old Dreamcatcher, you simply don’t plug in the Wifi dongle to turn off the Wifi Hotspot. Ken

The DreamCatcher 2.3 did not have a WiFi dongle did it? I thought that a WiFi server/client was built-in. I had to buy an Ethernet dongle.

You certainly don’t want WiFi beaconing “outernet” SSID and use WiFi in a country where access to information can get you beheaded.

–Konrad, WA4OSH

It came with a dongle i think :wink:

Each DC came with one of those EDUP wifi adapters. If you don’t want wifi, just don’t plug it in.

regards,
Manuel

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Yes - - that’s right. We had to add an Ethernet adapter to connect the Dreamcatchwer V2.03 to our router networks, but I never tried it without the Wifi dongle (as Wifi signature issues didn’t bother me then).

As I questioned, will an Ethernet capability be built into the new Dreamcatcher with a optional dongle Wifi adapter. That would be the original configuration of the old Ku Lighthouse receiver Outernet started with when they first came up on Ku-band years ago. You could use the Lantern connected with an ethernet cable or in the Hotspot mode (the Wifi back then did not have the ability to connect to a local Wifi). Ken

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@kenbarbi @Tysonpower Ken and Manuel,
You are both correct. Senior moment?

–Konrad, WA4OSH

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Ethernet is only supported by a user-supplied USB-Ethernet adapter. Wifi dongle will be included.

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OK - - now the other shoe drop. Will you be able to add your own ethernet adapter and not plug in the Wifi dongle without making user edits to the Skylark program? Ken

Can a Maverick MK1-PLL’s LO be detected?

Yes, at a distance of 2 meters between the two LNB’s.

Here are the results of today’s experiment:

Accidental transmitter:
Maverick MK1-PLL LNB powered by 13V through a home made bias tee.
LO frequency =10,750 MHz

Receiver:
SATMaximum Universal LNB powered by 13v through a Mini-Circuits
ZFBT-4R2G-FT bias tee. The down-converted RF is received by a
NooElec metal-enclosed RTL-SDR
Software running on a Linux Laptop is Gqrx.
LO frequency = 9,750 MHz
calculated receive frequency=10.750 Mhz - 9,750 MHz = 1,000 GHz.

This is reception over two meters, indoors:

The signal goes away when the power to the Maverick MK1-LNB is removed.

It is raining today. If it does not rain tomorrow, I will repeat the experiment outdoors to get a sense of what the signal looks like over distance, and from different angles.

–Konrad, WA4OSH

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This is a post thru The Onion Router (TOR) torproject.org

Seems as thou I can get word out thru this media with some level of protection. Ken

Hate to bring up an old thread, but there is quite a difference between security and anonymity.

The protocol has no need to be to secure as it’s only one way, as for anonymous, I’m not sure if that’s even possible in todays society see here Hope 9 talk

Long story short, unless you don’t have a networked computer, smartphone, car made within the last 15 years, cable tv box, etc, etc, your privacy and anonymity concerns, in my opinion could be better directed.

Let’s clarify further - - a one way link (like short wave radio) provides a certain level of anonymity and security. What we are looking at is whether a Government Operative can detect radiation patterns revealing a listeners use of a device that actually is receiving information. In the past - - it was the oscillators involved in 2- 30 Mhz radio reception. Today, it would be the radiation patterns associated with Outernet’s new Ku-band LNBs.

Konrad is working this issue, and others will join in when Outernet comes up live. Ken

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